Feb. 1, 2023

When Moms Get Sick: A Conversation with Jayne Ann Osborne [Ep. 28]

Have you ever been so sick that you simply could not take care of your regular tasks, including taking care of the kids? Yes, we all have. Even if it's only for a couple of days, most of us have had the experience of not being able to function at our full capacity.

This week, we are actually doing something a little different on the podcast. I know most of my listeners are women and they also tend to be moms. I'm talking with Jayne Ann Osborne, who has an amazing experience to share with us today about when moms get sick.

Jayne Ann was sick every day of all four of her pregnancies. You'll hear about her experience with that and how severe her illness was. You'll hear how she continued to create connection with her family. And we even talk about how connection is made when food is not a part of it.

For many of you, the connection to people around food can be challenging when you decide that you're going to eat a little less or maybe just participate differently and food traditions or outings. So really pay attention to how she talks about connection and curiosity, especially when food was not an option. So, although this is definitely an "interruption to our regular programming," as they say, I think you're really going to love this conversation.

About Jayne Ann:

Jayne Ann Osborne has been in the communication and intentional parenting space for 10 years through research, writing, and, now that she has four children, practice. She is also a four time survivor of a pregnancy disorder called "hyperemesis gravidarum," which led her to write, illustrate, and publish a children's book, "When Mommies Get Sick." She is passionate about finding joy and living life on purpose - even when during life's inevitable curveballs.

To get Jayne Ann's book bundle at 50% off for my listeners, go here: https://www.life-onpurpose.com/books and enter the code "Lisa" for the discount!

Also check out Jayne Ann's NEW book! New Testament ABC

More from Well with Lisa:

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Instagram: @well_with_lisa

Transcript

WEBVTT

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Hi, welcome back to the eat.

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Well, Well think, well, LivWell podcast.

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I'm Lisa Salsbury.

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And my mission is to help women stop obsessing about everything they eat and feel confident about their ability to lose weight without a diet app.

00:00:12.949 --> 00:00:16.250
This week, we are actually doing something a little different.

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I know most of my listeners are women and they also tend to be moms.

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My guest today is Jayne Ann Osborn, who is a mom blogger, author and illustrator.

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And she has an amazing experience to share with us today.

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About when moms get sick.

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Although for most of us, this will end up relating to when you have a temporary illness.

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But Jayne Ann was sick every day of all four of her pregnancies.

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Now, just a little sick, just wait.

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You'll hear about her experience with that and how severe her illness was.

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You'll hear how she continued to create connection with her family.

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And we even talk about how connection is made when food is not a part of it for a lot of my clients, the connection to people around food.

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It can be challenging when you decide that you're going to eat a little less or maybe just participate differently and food traditions or outings.

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So really pay attention to how she talks about connection and curiosity, especially when food was not an option.

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So, although this is definitely a interruption to our regular programming, as they say, I think you're really going to love this conversation.

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Welcome to Eat Well, Think Well, Live Well; the podcast for women who want to lose weight, but are tired of counting and calculating all the food.

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I'm your host, Lisa Salsbury.

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I'm a certified health and weight loss coach and life coach, and most importantly a recovered chronic dieter.

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I'll teach you to figure out why you are eating when you aren't hungry, instead of worrying so much about what you are eating.

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I have Jayne Ann Osborne here with us today.

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We're so excited.

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She's an author, illustrator, mom, blogger, and is here to talk to us today about what we do when we get sick as mom.

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So I'm super excited.

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I'm gonna let her do the introduction though, and how she came to this work.

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Well, thank you so much for having me on.

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I am so excited to dive into this conversation.

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my family and I are from the Salt Lake area, and I've been in the communication and intentional.

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Parenting space for about 10 years.

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It started actually in college.

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I took a couple communication classes and those classes just lit my soul on fire.

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I could not get enough and I immediately signed up for every single marriage and family communication class that my university had to offer.

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And I just loved learning about the brain and personality types and you know, how different factors combine to deeply.

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The most important relationships that we have, which are, are family relationships.

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And that ended up, you know, once I graduated college, I used the things that I learned in those classes as a springboard to continue learning about intentional parenting.

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So I still.

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Study and write about it.

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And now that I have four children, I, get to practice every day, intentional parenting.

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And I am also the author and illustrator of a children's book, which is called When Mommies Get Sick.

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And that book was inspired actually by my own health challenges.

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I am a four time survivor of a pregnancy disorder called Hyperemesis gravidarum.

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And my combin.

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Experiences with, with those four pregnancies were, such great learning experiences.

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They were extremely difficult, but also taught me and my family so much we decided to try to fit them all into a book.

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And that is when mommies get sick.

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So it serves as a guide to help, to help children understand not only what to expect, but also how to help when their mom gets sick because, As we all know, everybody gets sick sometimes, including moms, and we don't get a day off.

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Okay.

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Wow, that is amazing.

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Tell us, for those of us that don't know, what is Hyperemesis?

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Gra, I hope I'm saying that right.

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Yes, you

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that disorder is.

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Okay.

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So hyperemesis, I mean, in a nutshell it's extreme nausea and vomiting and pregnancy.

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So it's different from morning sickness because it lasts all day long and normally it lasts well into the second trimester and sometimes all the way up to birth.

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And, so it's, you know, not only marked by the, the extreme nausea and vomiting, but it's also.

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Marked by hyper celebration and starvation and you know, all the pain that comes with that.

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Being unable to eat, but still trying to grow a child within you.

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And, malnutrition and some people experience extreme, dental problems from all the vomiting and, you know, the list just goes on and on of.

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several times a day.

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Like you aren't able to keep any nutrition down at.

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Right.

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So for me, in my worst times I was going 24 to 72 hours without anything to eat and usually with nothing to drink.

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because anything I put in my mouth would just come right back up, including ice chips and, anything like my prenatal vitamin, it was, even Gatorade, saltine chips.

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It all just would come right back up and aggravate the vomiting.

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So it, it's horrible.

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And that's solid for nine months.

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I'm like, I'm like sitting here with my mouth open, like horrified

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Yeah.

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No, it's, it was horrible.

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Like I am, I'm not kidding you.

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And I say I would throw up eight to 12 times a day every day, and.

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and of course, you know, there are periods that are worse than others.

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I, in my worst times, like I said, I would go the 2024 to 72 hours with nothing to eat.

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But then, by the end of it I was able to eat more regularly, but I was still vomiting every day.

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and only felt better after the baby was out.

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And so was that the quote unquote Cure?

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Does it go away when the baby is born?

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Yeah.

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I mean, I'd say for the vast majority, I've heard a couple, you know, outliers that continue to experience the nausea and vomiting through the newborn stage, but at least for me personally, as soon as the baby was delivered, the placenta was out.

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Then all of a sudden it was like this light switch just went off and I was finally hungry and finally able to stomach the idea of.

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Wow.

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I my first doctor with my very first baby 25 years ago at this point now, or 20, Well, anyway, he's almost 24, so whatever that is for the pregnancy, I would complain about little things.

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Nothing like this, nothing but you know, heartburn or whatever.

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And he was really old school and he was like, Oh yeah, yeah, totally.

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You know what the cure for that is having a baby.

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And I would get so mad, I was like, You are not helpful.

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But actually that is the cure for what happened to you.

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So

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Yes, it is.

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It's a miracle.

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hopefully no doctor ever said that to you though.

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Well,

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It was not great

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I had a couple that were a little less than sympathetic, but yeah, it's, it's a wild.

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nothing to be done during the pregnancy for it.

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Correct.

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So, I mean, there are different medications and some medications work for some people.

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But for me, I tried every cocktail out there.

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I tried every combination of all the different medicines and all the different homeopathic remedies.

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I tried everything.

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And for me, I never could find anything that would fix it.

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Okay.

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So it's one thing when it's your first baby, but now, but you said you have four, so you're dealing with this while you have one, two, and three children to care for while you are.

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Trying to manage this illness.

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So obviously then there we have this topic of the book.

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There's no paid time off for Mommying.

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So what, What do you do?

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What tips do you have?

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I'm sure it's more than just a few tips here and there, but what were your strategies for function when you were so ill?

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And really it's something you have to take a day at a time.

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Cuz sometimes, especially with my first and second pregnancies, I really wasn't sure what to expect because I'd never heard of anybody getting this sick.

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And you know, when you, when you can't function as a mom, it just is so difficult.

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But looking back on, on the experiences, there are a couple different tiers to consider.

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Okay, this may be an imperfect analogy, but like, say your house is beginning to flood, there are a couple different things to consider.

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So like, first the immediate situation.

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So what am I gonna do with my kids?

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I am so violently ill today.

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What am I gonna do with my kids?

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What, how am I going to, going to address my other responsibilities such as like dinner carpool, soccer practice, these kinds of things.

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And you're gonna bring.

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Support system that's unique to the immediate situation.

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And then with the long term situation, you know, in my case I didn't get better and I, I knew I wasn't going to get better.

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So then as those immediate needs were being taken care of you know, I had to look to the future like, okay, what are my long term scheduled options here?

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Like, what are my scheduled options?

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Childcare and you know, what kind of game plan can I make with my support system, with my husband, with my healthcare provider.

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So just like as you're going through, if you were in a flooding situation, if you know the flood is coming, you're gonna do things differently than if it just shows up at your door.

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Right?

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And then, you know, but long term it's, it is messy and it is difficult.

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And There are different things you can do, but I mean, in the end you really have to take it a day at a time and find what works for your family and what doesn't work for your family and have a lot of patience, which is, it's hard to come by, but

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Waiting for your body to work through this and for healthcare providers to help you with it.

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In this case, you did have sort of an end date, which is nice for.

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Right.

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And, and we kind of do, because we were also, Jayne Ann I were talking about how this relates to lots of different sicknesses, whether you have a cold for the week or you have a long term.

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Autoimmune disorder.

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All of these things create situations for moms where they're just not functioning the way they want and, and especially for your situation, but most sicknesses are not in this way, but also trying to get your own nutrition taken care of can be difficult when you're not feeling good

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Right, and it's so difficult when.

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You know, you're not only trying to work through all the suffering yourself, but you're also trying to find a way to make it okay for everybody else in the house.

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Because I mean, you're not the only one affected by your sickness, and I think that's a weight that a lot of women can carry when we are not able to function at a hundred percent, no matter how hard we're trying.

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Right, And as much as we can divide, divide tasks at home, there's certainly things, of course, it's like, well, my husband does this and I do this.

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I think there's a natural division of labor, but when you are a stay at home mom, the stay at home tasks tend to fall.

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On you.

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And so dividing, continuing to divide those up and giving them over to your spouse or hiring them out can get to be kind of a challenge long term.

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Is that a strategy that you used to sort of hand off some of your at home tasks?

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Definitely.

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And I think, you know, there is a very real mental weight.

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Like even if I'm not performing all the tasks, I still have to make sure they're being done.

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And so just trying to.

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List those out was really helpful.

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And then I could set up expectations for, for my husband and for we're fortunate enough to live very close to both sets of grandparents and so having them be very aware of the schedule and very aware of the things that needed done was was extremely helpful and helps offload a little bit of that mental burden.

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For sure, because when you're asking other people to take care of a task, you also want them to take care of that mental burden.

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So when you ask someone, Hey, I need for you to take over the laundry, you don't mean when I tell you to do the laundry, then go do the laundry, you mean?

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also deciding when the laundry needs to be done, like the mental burden of noticing that the laundry needs to be done and then doing it.

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So it's one thing just for them to do the task physically, but it's a whole nother thing to ask someone to take over.

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Also, the thinking about it, which is I think takes a huge burden off of that person, that it's not feeling well.

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Definitely.

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So it gets tricky though because a lot of times we define our role as a mom by doing all of the mom stuff, which I've noticed quite a bit of this actually in social media lately, and maybe it's just because I'm kind of cute into it, but I believe being a mom is a relationship and not a task list.

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We feel like still as women, that it is a task list that it is, I'm the mom and so I am the taxi.

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And we see these, these lists of things that if you, you know, if you needed to replace me, you'd have to hire a taxi and a nurse and a cook and a all, all of these things.

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And so we think, oh, well that is what it means to be a mom.

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What it means to be a mom is to have a relationship.

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but how do you reconcile that when you're not doing all of those tasks that we've become associated with being a mom?

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You know, that is something I.

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Really struggled with during my pregnancies.

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I mean, just to be completely honest, it was really hard.

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Because I mean, there are those messages out there that like you're more than just the things you do, but to really believe it is a completely different hurdle.

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I, I don't know, for lack of a better word, it's just a completely different ball game.

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It, it's total, it, it's true.

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And, and by the way, I don't like, it's not like I'm like, Oh yeah, I'm all in.

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I read it once and I just believe that a hundred percent.

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I just feel like it's an option to believe it, but we don't yet.

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So now what?

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What do we do?

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Until then?

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Right.

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Well, for me it really came down to hitting rock bottom in this pregnancy with my fourth child.

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I was bedridden for months.

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I mean, I could not sit up in my bed without vomiting.

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And so you know, at first my kids would come into my room and ask for a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, ask for ask for permission to do this, or permission to do that, and just regular things.

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And I had to redirect them to go ask dad, Go ask grandma.

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And then after a while they stopped coming and asking me, and I began to have to actively.

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Against these thoughts of I am so worthless right now and no one really needs me.

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Everyone is doing just fine without me.

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What is the point of my role as a mom when any functional adult can make just as good a peanut butter and jelly sandwich as I can?

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You know, it was so hard to fight those thoughts.

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But at the same time, those thoughts didn't sit right.

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They just didn't feel like the truth.

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So I began to ask.

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What is my role and what does it mean to be their mother when I can't do those mom things?

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And what I landed on was this idea that no matter what I can and can't do for my children, because those things can change what I can and can't do, fluctuates day by day.

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But who I am as their mother is forever.

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And no matter what state I'm in, that will always matter and that will always be unique to my relationship with those children.

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Who you are is the most important thing, and what you can do is just a bonus.

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So it took a lot of mental work to come to that conclusion, but that sat right with me.

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That is so good.

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Such a good thought to go to and I'm, I'm all about the thoughts and intentional thinking, so I love that you landed on.

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A thought that really helped you to get through this time, because sometimes that's all we have is our brains when our bodies are not functioning the way we want.

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And sometimes our brains follow and we start getting into that spiraling where you're like, Why am I what?

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What's the point?

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Any functioning adult.

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And you were able to really come around to a thought that helped you there.

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Yeah.

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And another thing that really helped me was an example of a friend of mine.

00:16:12.683 --> 00:16:15.153
We were coworkers several years ago.

00:16:15.215 --> 00:16:18.095
And I actually included her in the illustrations in my book.

00:16:18.104 --> 00:16:22.658
And unfortunately early on in her mothering journey, she ended up developing cancer.

00:16:23.197 --> 00:16:29.347
And so she had, you know, a little toddler at home and this brand new baby and she's going through chemotherapy.

00:16:29.414 --> 00:16:36.315
And she was and continues to be now that she's unfortunately passed on, she has such a beautiful example of this principle.

00:16:36.315 --> 00:16:42.884
I mean, I watched her journey just over social media and she was always trying to make the most of every minute and.

00:16:44.475 --> 00:16:47.875
And she continues to have an impact and touch her children's lives.

00:16:47.875 --> 00:16:51.985
And, you know, attending to their physical needs isn't even part of the picture anymore.

00:16:52.794 --> 00:16:58.773
And yet she continues to be a completely irreplaceable role in their lives.

00:16:59.148 --> 00:16:59.298
Yeah.

00:16:59.298 --> 00:17:07.508
Because we have relationships exist in our brains, which means those children still have a relationship with her, even if she's not physically here on earth.

00:17:07.863 --> 00:17:08.403
Right.

00:17:08.403 --> 00:17:10.222
And you know, why can't that be the case with us?

00:17:10.462 --> 00:17:10.913
Sure.

00:17:11.752 --> 00:17:15.442
Even if if we're just stuck in bed, they can still have that relationship.

00:17:16.163 --> 00:17:21.502
What kinds of things did you do to continue to cultivate that when you weren't even able to sit up?

00:17:22.722 --> 00:17:24.853
So a big part of that was observation.

00:17:25.182 --> 00:17:26.413
So I was watching.

00:17:27.373 --> 00:17:29.472
Because really that's all I could do while I was laying in my bed.

00:17:29.472 --> 00:17:33.012
But I was watching the different ways that my kids were reaching out to me.

00:17:33.133 --> 00:17:38.982
And it's like, am I, am I accepting their little gestures?

00:17:39.049 --> 00:17:41.377
And you know, what are they doing?

00:17:41.377 --> 00:17:46.032
And I tried to follow their example, I really tried to observe the ways that they were reaching out to me.

00:17:46.063 --> 00:17:55.914
So it was you know, they would come into my room and bring quiet toys and just play next to my bed as quiet as they could, and, you know, just poking their little heads in the door and waving or.

00:17:56.859 --> 00:17:57.849
Aw, so sweet

00:17:58.045 --> 00:17:58.644
Yeah.

00:17:58.644 --> 00:18:06.355
Or making little notes and, and just a little plugin here for anybody who may end up being part of somebody else's support system.

00:18:06.714 --> 00:18:13.365
I am so grateful that my my mother and my mother-in-law were so good at redirecting my kids to try to connect with me.

00:18:13.935 --> 00:18:21.708
So as they were doing arts and crafts, then they would say, Hey, why don't you make your mom a little card, or, Do you wanna write a note?

00:18:21.827 --> 00:18:28.038
You know, doing things that, that helped connect us, even though I, I couldn't do a whole lot.

00:18:28.938 --> 00:18:38.463
So I mean, cultivating that connection, I think again, it was observing what they were doing and appreciating that on a deeper level, and then trying to mirror that back to them.

00:18:39.409 --> 00:18:43.443
And you know, for a time I couldn't, I was too sick to write them notes.

00:18:43.443 --> 00:18:46.624
But then when they would come in, I would say, Hey, I was thinking about you.

00:18:46.624 --> 00:18:48.273
These are the things I was thinking about.

00:18:48.663 --> 00:18:51.814
I was thinking about the day you were born and how much joy that brought me.

00:18:51.814 --> 00:18:53.854
Or I was thinking about the sweet thing you did.

00:18:53.854 --> 00:18:59.683
And so we worked a lot of off of memories together and and things that were unique to our relat.

00:19:00.542 --> 00:19:03.182
so I can't help but thinking, being that I.

00:19:04.008 --> 00:19:07.488
Highly focused on food and in my coaching.

00:19:08.817 --> 00:19:12.708
So many of my clients struggle with not.

00:19:13.383 --> 00:19:19.863
Eating when other people are eating as a form of celebration or as a form of connection.

00:19:20.252 --> 00:19:30.752
And what's striking me here is that you have zero connection with your children, with your spouse, with anyone around food during this time.

00:19:31.143 --> 00:19:37.383
And not just because you couldn't like eat it, but it just wasn't part of your life at that point, and you still.

00:19:37.998 --> 00:19:53.163
Cultivated connection, and obviously this is a, like a drastic situation, like very, it's, it's not the same as just choosing not to have it, but I'm just noticing that when I tell my clients it's more about the people.

00:19:53.163 --> 00:19:59.012
When you go out for girls, It's about the girls that you're with more than it's about what you order.

00:19:59.012 --> 00:20:06.333
I don't care what you order, It doesn't, it doesn't matter nearly as much cuz they're always sure, like I, if they're ordering dessert, I should order dessert.

00:20:06.333 --> 00:20:07.442
It should all be the same.

00:20:07.623 --> 00:20:09.393
they're gonna think this, they're gonna think that.

00:20:09.932 --> 00:20:13.383
And so they think that food has everything to do with the relationship.

00:20:13.387 --> 00:20:22.143
And I just think it's fascinating that food had zero to do with your relationships and there was tons of connection happening.

00:20:23.087 --> 00:20:24.798
Yeah, I, I would agree with that.

00:20:24.798 --> 00:20:30.827
It was actually surprising to me too because we do find so much connection and you know, sometimes we think.

00:20:31.143 --> 00:20:37.563
What we bring to the table has to be food, but as a human being, what we have to bring to the table is so much more than that.

00:20:37.563 --> 00:20:47.161
It's you know, it's shared experience and it's shared relationship and, you know, commonality in, in so much more than just what we're eating.

00:20:47.414 --> 00:20:47.924
Yeah.

00:20:48.194 --> 00:20:48.674
Yeah.

00:20:49.515 --> 00:21:00.127
So as this is all happening and you're finding these new mantras and how to connect underlying, you're probably still dealing with what we call mom guilt.

00:21:00.337 --> 00:21:07.928
Everyone knows what that means, and it's just basically, I mean, I kind of define it as just never doing enough.

00:21:08.377 --> 00:21:09.907
It's never doing enough.

00:21:09.938 --> 00:21:11.738
Combined with, I probably messed them.

00:21:12.665 --> 00:21:15.036
How was that for you during this time?

00:21:15.066 --> 00:21:16.385
How did you deal with that?

00:21:16.385 --> 00:21:18.605
Does it play a role here at all for you?

00:21:19.056 --> 00:21:21.155
Oh, it plays a huge role.

00:21:21.576 --> 00:21:23.105
And what a plague.

00:21:23.496 --> 00:21:30.400
You know, when, when I think of the word mom, guilt, the feeling that courses through my body is just like, Oh and I mean, it's, it is.

00:21:30.722 --> 00:21:32.073
Such a force.

00:21:32.119 --> 00:21:37.267
And so many of us keep it around like it's a permanent part of the parenting package.

00:21:37.777 --> 00:21:45.606
Like if I'm not feeling mom guilt, I must be doing something wrong, even though the mom guilt makes me feel like I'm doing something wrong.

00:21:45.606 --> 00:21:49.356
I don't know, it just, it feels like a part of the package,

00:21:49.539 --> 00:21:51.845
Well, It's like having to hate ourselves thin.

00:21:51.964 --> 00:21:55.714
You think like, Oh, if I don't hate my body enough, then I won't be motivated.

00:21:55.714 --> 00:22:00.990
You think like, Well, if I don't feel bad that I'm not doing it right, I won't be motivated to do it better.

00:22:01.865 --> 00:22:02.424
right.

00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:12.769
And so I think we think that the guilt is necessary in order for us to do things better and to keep improving in our parenting skills.

00:22:13.400 --> 00:22:20.000
If we think we're doing, if we think that we're doing a good job, then we won't want to improve or continue to connect.

00:22:20.029 --> 00:22:28.369
And obviously that when we're saying it out loud, it sounds completely wrong, but when your brain says it, it somehow is very convincing.

00:22:29.085 --> 00:22:29.894
Yes it is.

00:22:30.525 --> 00:22:31.795
Oh, that siren call.

00:22:31.865 --> 00:22:40.355
And you know, it's interesting that you phrase it that way because I personally, I don't believe that all guilt is bad and not all mom guilt is bad.

00:22:40.835 --> 00:22:41.075
I.

00:22:41.990 --> 00:22:44.269
You know, there are a couple different types of guilt here.

00:22:44.299 --> 00:22:52.160
There's one type of guilt that stems from an awareness of ourselves, and it can be empowering, motivating, and encouraged progress.

00:22:52.579 --> 00:22:57.289
And I think that's the kind that we're trying to keep ahold of, and it's more of a gentle

00:22:57.380 --> 00:23:02.089
The kind that, just the kind that just says, Oh, hey, this isn't, this doesn't align.

00:23:02.494 --> 00:23:03.035
Right.

00:23:03.184 --> 00:23:05.494
Like, Oh, I didn't like how that came out.

00:23:05.494 --> 00:23:07.384
Maybe I can have a doover.

00:23:07.414 --> 00:23:11.365
You know, I'm going, I yelled at my kid, I'm gonna go say sorry and ask for a doover.

00:23:11.825 --> 00:23:13.474
You know, it's a gentle nag.

00:23:13.561 --> 00:23:16.051
And it focuses on something that you could do.

00:23:16.172 --> 00:23:19.615
Like, I could go apologize, I could Fill in the blank.

00:23:20.185 --> 00:23:29.066
But the other kind of guilt that I'd venture to say we are all too familiar with is the type of guilt that stems from a criticism of ourselves or contempt for ourselves.

00:23:29.425 --> 00:23:31.766
And this kind of guilt feels prickly.

00:23:31.766 --> 00:23:32.695
It feels heavy.

00:23:32.695 --> 00:23:39.385
It's suffocating, it's belittling, and it comes from shame and regret and comparison, and leaves us.

00:23:40.601 --> 00:23:41.830
More or less paralyzed.

00:23:41.919 --> 00:23:46.749
It focuses on all the shoulds, so including things you may or may not even have any control over.

00:23:47.048 --> 00:23:50.618
So like in my case, I should be making peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.

00:23:50.618 --> 00:23:54.459
I should be taking my kids to school, but that wasn't in the realm of my control.

00:23:54.516 --> 00:24:00.155
And it can be very damaging and you can't just will yourself back to a hundred percent.

00:24:00.185 --> 00:24:07.445
When life throws a curve ball, like there are some things that happen that you can prepare all you want and you can have the best of intentions.

00:24:08.185 --> 00:24:09.395
but things are still gonna happen.

00:24:09.455 --> 00:24:12.175
And and that kind of guilt just serves no one.

00:24:12.175 --> 00:24:15.566
It doesn't serve yourself, It doesn't serve your spouse or your children.

00:24:15.617 --> 00:24:22.337
And so if the mom guilt you're experiencing is coupled with one positive thing you could do, then you know, that's fantastic.

00:24:22.788 --> 00:24:31.307
But if the mom guilt that you feel has you feeling crushed under the weight of a million different shoulds, it has no place in your heart or your.

00:24:33.077 --> 00:24:44.498
And I think by being aware of the type of guilt we're experiencing during times of illness, whether it be physical or mental illness, we can take a stand to only allow those bits of guilt that build rather than destroy.

00:24:45.227 --> 00:24:45.916
Perfect.

00:24:46.067 --> 00:24:47.446
That is so helpful.

00:24:47.957 --> 00:24:56.567
And I think when we're just stuck in that guilt that leads down into shame, that's where we wanna really say, Oh, whoa.

00:24:56.926 --> 00:25:02.686
Because if you've heard of the definitions where guilt says, Hey, you've just done something wrong.

00:25:02.717 --> 00:25:07.487
This doesn't align with your values, that can be helpful, as opposed to shame, which.

00:25:08.237 --> 00:25:09.227
You are wrong

00:25:10.106 --> 00:25:10.321
right.

00:25:10.487 --> 00:25:11.446
as a person.

00:25:11.866 --> 00:25:17.987
And, and that's I think where we kind of, we call it mom guilt, but it's probably more like mom shame.

00:25:18.467 --> 00:25:19.487
So I see what you're saying.

00:25:19.487 --> 00:25:27.616
Like definitely there's some forms of guilt that are helpful cuz it's like, Hey, hey there, It's just like a little, a little red flag.

00:25:27.760 --> 00:25:33.161
As you're talking about this mom guilt, it reminds me of a quote I've seen kind of circulating around on Instagram.

00:25:33.161 --> 00:25:33.971
It's from Dr.

00:25:33.971 --> 00:25:40.270
Aon, and he said, My mental health really changed when I stopped asking myself, Why am I so lazy?

00:25:40.631 --> 00:25:44.921
And started asking, Why does my body need so much rest right now?

00:25:45.310 --> 00:25:49.510
And I think this is so applicable with what we're talking about that.

00:25:50.330 --> 00:25:55.490
Sometimes we need to respond to what our body needs and don't name.

00:25:55.490 --> 00:25:59.871
Call yourself about it because that's gonna lead to that shame.

00:26:00.800 --> 00:26:01.310
Right.

00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:14.480
And you know, again, trying to get a real handle on what is within your control and what isn't, because they're just, it's not productive to beat yourself up over those things that you can't control.

00:26:14.480 --> 00:26:16.730
And that's, I think, where a lot of the name calling comes in.

00:26:16.730 --> 00:26:19.111
And you know that, that criticism.

00:26:19.680 --> 00:26:26.890
Getting out of this mom guilt and mom stuff just requires a lot of creativity because the.

00:26:27.299 --> 00:26:37.529
That's definitely what I'm noticing here with your situation is you had to be very creative to continue to cultivate your relationships, to continue to create connection.

00:26:37.769 --> 00:26:42.269
Lot of creativity and one of the emotions I notice.

00:26:42.615 --> 00:26:55.305
That helps me with creativity is curiosity, and I know this is a favorite for you as well, is I love to generate curiosity because I just think it leads to so much creativity.

00:26:55.694 --> 00:26:59.035
It also, just opens up your brain a lot.

00:26:59.065 --> 00:27:04.974
I think curiosity does, and this is genuine curiosity, not like what in the world is wrong with that person.

00:27:06.460 --> 00:27:09.069
I wonder what is happening in their day.

00:27:09.400 --> 00:27:19.809
And I do practice this emotion all the time, but what is your favorite way to cultivate curiosity and do you find that to increase your joy as well?

00:27:21.396 --> 00:27:23.676
So cultivating curiosity I found is all about.

00:27:24.696 --> 00:27:36.846
Like you were saying, the questions that ping pong around in our minds, so in my case, rather than asking why I had to rephrase and ask what, So instead of why is this medicine not working?

00:27:36.846 --> 00:27:44.467
Why am I so sick when everyone else is glowing in their pregnancies, I could ask, Okay, what have I not tried yet?

00:27:45.517 --> 00:27:50.467
Is here for me to learn what does this experience have to offer me in terms of growth?

00:27:51.186 --> 00:27:54.396
And, you know, it really, it boils down to creative problem solving.

00:27:54.400 --> 00:27:56.874
Albert Einstein has this fantastic quote that I love.

00:27:56.874 --> 00:28:00.294
It says in the middle of difficulty wise, opportunity.

00:28:01.163 --> 00:28:07.074
And so looking at any type of situation as a potential opportunity can cultivate a lot of curiosity.

00:28:07.121 --> 00:28:10.357
I also learned there is so much power in Submiss.

00:28:10.748 --> 00:28:18.734
So accepting the things that we can't control, and then looking around and asking what is here what opportunities exist in this space.

00:28:18.865 --> 00:28:25.375
And for me, that ended up being writing and illustrating my book because creating brings me so much joy.

00:28:25.464 --> 00:28:33.214
And so finding something that I could create while I was stuck in bed for so long was life giving.

00:28:33.214 --> 00:28:34.207
And at first, I.

00:28:34.957 --> 00:28:38.676
Like I said, I couldn't even sit up in bed and so I had to create it mentally.

00:28:39.007 --> 00:28:46.711
And then as I got a little stronger, I was able to put pen to paper and then put paintbrush to paper and create the whole book.

00:28:46.711 --> 00:28:50.432
And I ended up doing the whole thing, all of the illustrations and all of the writing.

00:28:50.672 --> 00:28:53.041
And I had it finished just before my daughter was born.

00:28:53.701 --> 00:28:54.152
And

00:28:54.211 --> 00:28:55.561
which, which pregnancy was

00:28:55.892 --> 00:28:57.865
this was my most recent my fourth child.

00:28:58.705 --> 00:29:00.067
And so.

00:29:00.981 --> 00:29:12.231
I dunno, I had to take a long, hard look at what I love and what brought me joy and then tried to see if there was a way to incorporate that in the place where I was so like working within the boundaries I was given.

00:29:12.298 --> 00:29:19.647
There is, I mean, I would say arguably there usually is wiggle space to incorporate something that you love in whatever space you're in.

00:29:20.343 --> 00:29:25.455
So finding, finding a way to incorporate the things I love within the boundaries I was given.

00:29:25.867 --> 00:29:28.353
So when it comes to finding joy, most things are temporary.

00:29:28.383 --> 00:29:30.692
Like, we're not always going to find a forever solution.

00:29:30.932 --> 00:29:36.512
Like, I'm not going to quit my stay at home mom job to become a full-time artist or writer.

00:29:36.843 --> 00:29:40.141
But but that gave me a lot of joy in that temporary situation.

00:29:40.681 --> 00:29:41.671
And so just.

00:29:42.675 --> 00:29:45.945
Something isn't gonna necessarily last as a forever solution.

00:29:46.006 --> 00:29:47.715
We can't let that frustrate us.

00:29:47.741 --> 00:29:51.094
Because it doesn't matter if something brought you joy for five minutes or five years.

00:29:51.153 --> 00:29:58.233
Like some, sometimes holding onto the memory of something that brought you joy can last, can hold you over for a long time.

00:29:58.240 --> 00:30:12.490
And I'm sure you've run into this before there's something called a negativity bias where the brain space that we give, the things that harm us or make us feel bad, we give a lot of brain space to those things and a lot of memory space and.

00:30:13.315 --> 00:30:18.984
one five minute negative encounter we can hang on to for years, but one five minute positive encounter.

00:30:19.015 --> 00:30:21.115
How long does that really last in our brains?

00:30:21.218 --> 00:30:22.988
It's, it's just such a bummer too.

00:30:23.018 --> 00:30:24.758
I mean it, I know why it's there.

00:30:24.758 --> 00:30:30.028
It's to keep us alive cuz good things don't kill us, And so, you know.

00:30:30.653 --> 00:30:34.643
Evolutionarily, we paid attention to the negative things.

00:30:35.002 --> 00:30:38.932
I teach that we really experience life as 50 50, about half the time.

00:30:38.932 --> 00:30:40.133
We have positive emotion.

00:30:40.137 --> 00:30:52.883
About half the time we have negative emotion, but unfortunately our brain thinks it's some more, more like 70 30, where about 70% of the time it's negative because of that negativity bias because we give more.

00:30:53.452 --> 00:30:55.673
To the negative things that happen.

00:30:56.242 --> 00:31:01.673
And so, you know, one bad thing happens in the day and you're like, Well, that day shot.

00:31:01.673 --> 00:31:05.333
And the truth is, it was, it was just one thing.

00:31:05.333 --> 00:31:06.383
So yeah, negativity.

00:31:06.387 --> 00:31:12.252
Bias is really a challenge I think, for humans just to get to the natural state of 50 50.

00:31:12.768 --> 00:31:15.468
Right, and I mean, I would argue that even.

00:31:15.738 --> 00:31:32.807
In a very intense season of suffering with, you know, if it's a chronic illness, if it's, you know, pregnancy related, if it's, you know, even a 24-hour cold, you know, the brain has such power to make it a positive experience or a negative experience.

00:31:32.807 --> 00:31:43.337
And although there will be negativity there, if we can be aware of our brain's tendency to hang onto the negative and maybe turn it off for a while and try to remember the positive it can hold you through.

00:31:44.143 --> 00:31:45.192
A really long time.

00:31:45.211 --> 00:31:52.686
A couple other joy tips that I love you know, especially during seasons of suffering is comparison is the thief of joy.

00:31:53.257 --> 00:32:01.583
So for me, like comparing my pregnancy to other people's pregnancies robbed me of joy because mine was so hard and, and you know, it's the same.

00:32:01.583 --> 00:32:02.222
You do a.

00:32:03.053 --> 00:32:11.762
Body image coaching and helping with health and wellness and like comparing your body to other people's bodies will rob you of your joy of the progress that you've made.

00:32:12.452 --> 00:32:17.048
And so if comparison is the thief of joy, guilt is the crusher of joy.

00:32:17.798 --> 00:32:22.928
And on the flip side, curiosity and creativity are catalysts of joy.

00:32:25.057 --> 00:32:30.008
So to cultivate the curiosity and creativity, trying something new can be really helpful.

00:32:30.008 --> 00:32:34.298
Like for me, writing and illustrating the book was something new and it brought me a lot of joy.

00:32:34.327 --> 00:32:40.772
But you have to be okay being a beginner and you have to be okay, not you know, not being excellent at it.

00:32:40.772 --> 00:32:45.032
It doesn't rob you of the joy of trying and finding.

00:32:45.182 --> 00:32:49.673
Well, I've seen your book and it's adorable, so I'm pretty sure it's excellent.

00:32:51.063 --> 00:32:51.722
Well, thank you.

00:32:51.722 --> 00:32:54.633
I really, really gave it all I had.

00:32:54.633 --> 00:32:58.143
I have actually been painting for as long as I can remember.

00:32:58.173 --> 00:32:59.643
Ever since I could hold a paintbrush.

00:32:59.647 --> 00:33:02.913
I have been painting and I've always wanted to write a children's book.

00:33:02.942 --> 00:33:07.903

Jayne Ann Osborne

Mother, Author, Illustrator

Jayne Ann Osborne has been in the communication and intentional parenting space for 10 years through research, writing, and, now that she has four children, practice. She is also a four time survivor of a pregnancy disorder called "hyperemesis gravidarum," which led her to write, illustrate, and publish a children's book, "When Mommies Get Sick." She is passionate about finding joy and living life on purpose - even when during life's inevitable curveballs.

When Moms Get Sick: A Conversation with Jayne Ann Osborne [Ep. 28]

Jayne Ann Osborne

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