DEXA Scan and VO2 Max with Ken Apperson [Ep. 93]

0:00 This is Eat Well, Think Well, Live Well podcast. I'm Lisa Salisbury and this is episode 93 DEXA scan and VO two max with Ken Apperson. This episode is all about data. Data that you can get about your health and body. That goes well beyond your bathroom scale. I was interested in finding out more about my body composition and determined how well my cardio conditioning was working. And so I decided to do a DEXA scan as well as a VO two max test at my local DEXA fit. Ken Apperson is the co-owner of the Midtown Sacramento location. And after chatting about my tests, I asked him. To come on the podcast. To discuss for all of you, the benefits of these tests.

0:42 I encourage you to seek out testing that interests you and serves your particular need for your health. Kohl's. Don't wait for your doctor to suggest them. If you feel like you would benefit from the extra data, not just from the tests I discuss here today with Ken, but anything that you feel might be helpful to you. That's totally what this was about for me. Listen in as Ken and I discuss both the DEXA scan, how it's different from the one your doctor will order when you are 65. And also the VO two max, you'll be amazed at what you can learn from these tests and how it can affect your exercise and lifestyle routines. Welcome to Eat Well, Think Well, Live Well; the podcast for women who want to lose weight, but are tired of counting and calculating all the food.

1:30 I'm your host, Lisa Salsbury. I'm a certified health and weight loss coach and life coach, and most importantly a recovered chronic dieter. I'll teach you to figure out why you are eating when you aren't hungry, instead of worrying so much about what you are eating. Welcome back to the eat well, think well, live well podcast. I'm delighted to have Ken Apperson with me today. So I had a. really interesting experience at the Dexa Fit when I went and got a Dexa scan as well as a VO2 Max and Ken was so helpful to me in our consultation afterwards. I was like, Hey, I need you on the podcast. So he graciously accepted. He has a very busy schedule, so we squeezed this in and I'm so grateful.

2:13 So welcome Ken. Give me, give us a little of your background and, um, Why don't you also go into a little bit of what Dexa Fit provides as a service? absolutely. Well, first, thank you, Lisa, for having me. I really appreciate it. It was awesome working with you. Um, I don't know if we'll get to it, but your numbers were stellar. So, um, anyway, yeah, I I've been with Dexafit for nine years. I sold the tech company in 2010 and, um, and then invested in Dexafit when it was a very young company, just a couple of locations Now we're an international company. So we've come a long way in, in nine years.

2:55 And I was at a investor meeting with a bunch of the, angel investors. And the question came up, you know, about Sacramento, they thought demographically it was great for a Dexter fit. And they asked me if I knew anybody and I asked around, I couldn't find anybody. And then the light bulb went off. I was like, I'm not really doing anything. So I, I love the business. I, so that's how I got involved. like to say We're purveyors of precision here, you know, we're not doctors, we're not dieticians, you know, we're not kinesiologists, we, we really are just here to test very key health metrics in three tests. the one that brings most people through the door is the DEXA scan, you, you had yours. We've got your report right here.

3:36 the DEXA scan is going to look at your body composition. So everything that comprises your body components, uh, your body fat, true body fat. I say true because nothing else works. It's like varying degrees of misinformation out there. Certainly our scales are the worst. Um, but this is going to give you your true body fat. It's going to give us your visceral fat. So that's the. For lack of a better term, it's, it's known as the killer fat. This is the fat that's internal, not like subcutaneous that we can pinch or see it's internal surrounding our organs. Um, when it gets to certain levels, which is 2. 85 pounds for women, four pounds for men, it causes many issues.

4:18 The, the CDC releases a list every year of 82 weight related illnesses, or it's at 82 now. It gets longer every year. Lots of new cancers in there. when a visceral number is manageable, and it's not in that danger region, there's almost no incidence of weight related illness. When it's over that, the numbers spike through the roof, and, uh, it causes metabolic damage. Thank you. So we're going to measure that we're going to measure how much muscle mass you have a key health metric, natural muscle is every bit as important as having your body fat in the regions that are healthy. You've got to have a certain amount of muscle mass. So we're going to measure that. We're also going to see your bone density important for both genders, probably more important for women, especially women that are on the verge of or in the midst of menopause.

5:09 We see huge hits to bone density, and a whole lot of other things. So that's the, that's the DEXA scan. We also do VO2 max testing, which is going to tell us. unambiguously how healthy your heart is. In a very short test, not a lot of exercise, it's about six minutes. You know, Lisa, you went through it and you kind of killed it, but yeah, we're, we get a glimpse into how efficiently your heart and lungs are getting oxygenated blood. to your muscles, which is critically important to overall health. We're also along the way, we identify your true zones. So we're able to tell you your fat burning zone, which is where you burn 100 percent fat. It's usually a much lower number than people think they're probably overworking out, which is doing their heart well, but they're not burning any fat.

5:56 And then your true zone two, your true zone three, and the last test we do is a metabolic. I don't think you did, did you do the metabolic? I don't think you did the metabolic. Nope. For that one you come in fasted, um, no coffee, no anything, and we are able to tell you within one calorie. Of what you need in a day calorically, which is a huge baseline number because you should never be eating under that. So those are the three tests. we do other things here, but those are the biggies. Yeah. Okay. Thank you so much for walking through those services. That is definitely what drew me to Dexa Fit. Let me tell a little bit about why I decided to do this. So as my listeners know, I, do not mind getting on a scale.

6:40 It is not a problem for me. I have entire episodes about. Why we can weigh ourselves without the drama that when we get on the scale, it is simply our gravitational pull at that moment in time on our bodies. It is math. It is data. So it doesn't bother me to get on the scale and look at my number for a long time. I've just realized it just doesn't tell me enough. Data. I actually wanted more data than that. So it's not that I wanted the scale to tell me something different or that I think my scale numbers should change. I just wanted more data. So the DEXA scan is fascinating because we get that on a medical, on a medical side, but not until typically, it depends on your insurance, but typically you'll see that ordered around the age of 65.

7:29 Would you agree, Ken? Ken. That's when typically people see it medically, medically, the only time you're ever going to see a DEXA scan is for a bone density right? That's what they're it's just looking at this much bone in the femoral neck of your hip or your lumbar spine. But that machine is used for what you have the whole body comp. And I got to tell you, Lisa, you know, it kills me that Western medicine and health insurance companies do not pay for 110 DEXA scan that we do. It's different. Bone density is different. And you're right. 65. Yes. because the only thing that the medical system that your insurance is going to look at is your bone density, but this machine.

8:12 Actually does all of those other things that Ken mentioned, and that's what I was interested in. He looked at my, and we, we can go over some of my numbers, but he looked at my bone density and he's like, not a problem. And I'm only 48. So I expected that my mom is 78 and her bone density is still really great. So from a genetic standpoint, I expected my bone density to be good. I didn't really come for the bone density, which I find fascinating because that's what you see it for only on the medical side. And so it's a little early, but it's good to see a baseline. I was, um, a two. Tell me what that means. What was, what, what does the two mean in the, me let me relook at your report that that's outstanding.

8:56 Yeah, you were a two. So yeah, your skeleton weighs 5. 8 pounds, which which always blows my mind that our skeletons way so little, you know, carrying a whole beings on that. But your your your T score was a two, which is really, really good. And you kind of touched on something that's important. There is a hereditary component to this. But that speaks to two things. Your number's outstanding. You'd have to throw yourself in front of an oncoming train to break a major bone. Have you broken a bone? I forget if I no, I never have. And interestingly, my mom just took a pretty hard fall. She caught her toe on a curb and went down pretty hard and did not break anything. Yeah. you know, for your mom, that's outstanding.

9:37 So, uh, a T score of two is absolutely outstanding because you're two standard deviations, denser bone than who you're being compared to, which is a healthy 30 year old woman, because we stopped growing bone at 30, the factory just shuts down completely. And we're battling gravity for the rest of our lives to keep our bones dense. Your mom has weathered the menopausal storm. Menopause wreaks absolute chaos, catastrophe on bone density. I've seen that you're at a two standard deviation above I've seen women go from, uh, in your neighborhood, not as good at your next level, but close to your number and, and be diagnosed with osteoporosis after a menopausal storm.

10:20 So we want to be driving that number as high as we can, even when the numbers are good And we do that with weight bearing exercise. You know, strength training is the best. walking and running. Great. The flip side, like ellipticals and, you know, the, the, the cycling and, swimming, it's great for the heart, but there's no weight bearing all that. So you're not going to ever increase your bone density, but your, your number, yeah, that's, that speaks to some good genes for sure. If your mom, you said she's 78. Yeah, I think. Yeah, that I'm sorry. I digress. The German study suggested that if we get our bone density to 2. 5. we would not break a hip upon a normal fall.

11:02 Now, when you reach 70 or older, I don't want to be too dramatic, but the odds aren't good to survive a full blown hip break over the age of 70. The numbers are staggering, but this study suggested if you're at 2. 5, You wouldn't break a bone at that. So I can only speak to myself. I'm held up. I'm getting my number to 2. 5 right now because I've had relatives that have broken a hip and declined and one of what one of them died. So I, yeah, that's a, that was a really powerful peer reviewed. So, Yeah. So, I mean, you can't argue with knowing your bone density number. It's, it is still valuable, even being young, even being before, I mean, I'm very much into perimenopause, but I have not gone through menopause, And so, certainly, I love having this baseline number so that I know where I'm at going into it.

11:55 If you are. perimenopause, premenopause, and your number is low. That's just a red flag for you to get it up. If you wait until you're 65 to have your first exoscan, once your doctor orders it, it's not that it's too late. It's never too late. You can always work out. You can always do more weight bearing activity, but if you're not in the habit at 65, it's just going to be a lot So you have a lot bigger challenge and you have a lot bigger road. So it's a great baseline number to look at. the other numbers I was really interested in looking at was my body fat compared to my skeletal muscle. And the reason for this is I've been lifting weights pretty consistently since 2019.

12:36 I like full, full weight. Like our worth of, of weights, not just dumbbells and whatever you're doing, like something's better than nothing. So don't think I'm criticizing, but I'm just saying I was doing, you know, squats, deadlifts, like the big ones, the big compound movements with the, with the bar and all. And I just thought, Am I even making a difference? Because my weight is the same, but I kept thinking, it's so odd because I feel better. I feel like I look better. Is it because my brain has changed? is it because of all the coaching I've done? And I'm just like, well, I just feel better in my body now, which is good too. Like. I'm not, I'm not mad about that, but I'm like, I just wonder if my body fat has changed.

13:19 And I have had several, I used to have, uh, body fat tests done fairly frequently because I was a little bit obsessed with it which types did you do? Did you do the bot or the so in co in college, I did, um, I did a, a water type test when I was on the swim team and I was called in by my coach. This is kind of one of my early memories of being told there was something wrong with my body. And so mind you, we were swimming four hours a day and he told me my body fat was too high and that's why I was slow. And, um, that was, you know, pretty traumatic. So I, I got kind of obsessed with it at that point.

14:02 I volunteered for a study in college where they did this, you were sitting on this swing thing and they dunked you in anyway, point being every test I had back then, even when I was active in college was well, Well above what I am now, like a good 10 percent often above, cause I was frequently in the mid thirties. So I was really surprised to see my total body fat, um, was 25. 6, which I was just, I was absolutely shocked about that. And I think the main difference twofold for me, number one, the weightlifting, I think because I'm building the skeletal muscle. Um, and number two, I just eat a lot less sugar than I used to.

14:46 That's the truth. I just do. just nailed it. At least you nailed it. And by the way, I must speak to the fact that I've got, um, I've got this chart here in front of me that we use when our clients come in, we'll show you where, where you are in relation to your peers with your body fat. And there's something that's called an ideal range, and I cannot overemphasize how important it is to be in the ideal range. And tell us about that. Tell us what that, what that is and why there is that ideal range. Sure. So there's four categories. There's lean, there's ideal, there's average and above average. Okay. there again, I spoke earlier about that list of, you know, weight related illnesses.

15:29 The CDC releases that list every year. You don't want any of those diseases. it's almost non existent when you get your visceral fat down to where yours is. And also when you have your body fat in the ideal range. Yours is not only there, yours was in where ideal and lean meat, which is, I don't know. I forget if you follow Peter Attia, I think he's the best voice in longevity medicine right now. I love his talk. He's incredible. And I encourage everybody to read his book called Outlive, but he is never shutting up about where ideal and lean right where you are. But as we get into the average range, the likelihood of, you know, being diagnosed with one of those 82 diseases ticks up considerably.

16:12 It gets higher even in above average. Interestingly, the least healthy place to be is in the super lean range. because that's where we start our organs, but you, this ideal range is key. and you said an important thing there that I want to touch on. You talked about natural muscle really, really quickly. You kind of strength training is so important because when we get it to it, it's called an FFMI fat free mass index. It's a, it's a health metric that Peter Atia talks about a lot. All the top leaders in health talk about it. When you get your. Natural muscle to the 80th percentile for your peer group. Your peer group is your gender and your height globally. Don't ask me why that's just what your peer group is.

16:55 I have no idea, but when you get to the 80th percentile, you start to lose body fat. It's like magic. It's, it does. It's sort of counterintuitive, but when you get your muscle mass to a certain place, It becomes easier to lose body fat. You earn yourself more calories. You, you change your metabolism. You increase your cardio health. I feel like I've, you know, I've been doing this for so long. And I think I told you this, this Lisa, when you were here, I think I could write a health book and it would be three sentences. First sentence is have your body fat in that ideal range where you are. The second is to have your muscle mass at the 80th percentile for your peer group globally.

17:36 And the third is to score between good and superior on a VO2max test. I believe you were superior. So you've got two of those boxes checked. I can't remember frankly what your muscle mass was, but So I'm not quite, I'm not quite there. I'm not quite to the 80th percentile, I don't think. Oh, wait, you're just over. You're oh, am I? Oh, what do You're just over. So you've got all three boxes checked. That's, that's impressive. Well, everyone knows, I say it all the time, I'm just gonna put it out there again. I'm planning to live to 100. Well, yeah, I hope you've got a good retirement plan. That's all I can say because the numbers are stunning.

18:18 Yeah. They're really good. So, um, and, and I don't want to, like, dwell on my numbers, but I just want to emphasize the fact that these are true numbers. This is why I was interested in this. Because all of the numbers I had gotten before, whether or not I was I was working out back then. I was a lot younger and the idea that my 20, 20 year old body had 10 percent more body fat than I currently have doesn't make sense to me. Like knowing what I looked like back then, I'm like, it just doesn't make sense. And so I think. Although I do think the strength training and the diet changes that I've made are definitely a factor, I also think it's just so important to get real numbers.

19:07 I have been worried about my number for no reason. For reasons of like, well, those tests back then, they just weren't accurate. So if you have had body fat tests in the past and you're like, gosh, my number's really high, I It might not be. I'm not saying it's definitely wrong. I'm just saying it might be. I wanted true numbers and that was one of my big motivations to get here is just to have the, the actual facts, which I just think is so important. Yeah. I mean, I don't know how people go through their lives without checking in. And I, and I, you know, I was one of them. I would never have come into DexaFit had I not been forced to because I invested in this company.

19:48 Right. And they, they had an event with all the angel investors and they had us all do the test. I'm the, I'm the guy that would be like, I don't want to know. I just don't want to know. So I did it. And it blew my mind. I think of all the metrics I got, the DEX scan, the metabolic, all that. The one thing that changed it for me was, The VO2 max test is so critical. It's going to tell us unambiguously again how healthy your heart is. In a 15 minute test, we're going to be able to tell you how healthy your heart is, how valuable is that? But at the two minute mark of that test, we see this cool, incredibly powerful metric. We're able to tell you where your fat burning zone. And I've been a very crazy runner since I was 15, like marathon runner ultras.

20:35 But when I hit 40, I developed this, I started getting some fat for the first time in my life. By 45, I had A big pouch that my dad had, my grandfather had neither of whom had ever logged one mile and that here I was running 60 miles a week. It really was irritating. But then I did my first VO2max in that investor group my fat burning zone is 78 to 83 beats per minute. Think about that for a second. When I run it's double that. So all of those, all of those decades of running. I was curving my heart. Well, I had a really good VO two score, but I was, I was burning 0 percent fat. You can see that on the report that comes out of the deck.

21:17 So when you're in the higher ranges, you're burning 0 percent fat. My fat burning zone again, 78 to 83 beats per minute. So I stopped running. I replaced it with a, I was religious about this, a one hour walk, seven days a week, rain or shine. I never missed a day that I thought was on a vacation seven days a week. I walked. I have my Apple watch. I stayed at 80 beats per minute, dead center of that fat burning zone was identified by the VO two. my ex wife is a physician at UC Davis. We were married at the time. She thought something was wrong with me because I lost all the weight in my face in a little over a month and a little over four months and 24 pounds of my gut was gone and it's so counterintuitive if you think about it.

22:03 I stopped running like a madman and I replaced it. with a mellow walk. Now, granted, I was really, I was really disappointed about spending seven hours a week in my fat burning zone, but I had the data. I knew where to be and I took the fat off. So the numbers that come out of here and I, I love how you just put it. Um, it really, it's empowering because it it just gives you data to, and if you're disciplined and you're willing to put the work in, it gives you the data to make the changes, right? It takes the mystery out of it. Yeah. So I'm glad you transitioned into the VO2 max I adjusted the zones on my heart rate app to match the ones that came out of the VO2 Max test, but I want to talk a little bit, I know that you're well versed in Peter Attia's work, tell us why he advocates so strongly for average people, you and I, we're not athletes.

22:58 We're not, you know, I, you sound a little more competitive than I am. Um, I'm just average. Why is it important to know our VO two max? And what is it really telling us about our longevity? Cause this your answer, I'm just going to spoiler alert. This is why I had this test done Well, in a podcast of many great questions you've asked, that's the best one you've asked, and it's probably the most important, The VO2, it's the measurement of the maximum oxygen delivery and utilization for cardiovascular exercise. A better way to put it is, how efficient is your heart getting blood to your muscles?

23:38 It's Peter Attia, and I love that, that, that you're an advocate. I mean, I think the guy walks on water. I really think he's incredible at what he does. But the reason it's so important it's like, if you want to compare it to automobiles, you've got high performance vehicles, and then you've got cars with smaller engines. Now, if they take off from a starting line, one car is going to completely outpace the other. The other is going to try it, but it can't, it can't keep up. And then eventually. It's gonna blow a gasket. I'm sorry to put it in such crass terms, but it really is a great analogy. And I didn't get that. I'm not smart enough to come up with that analogy.

24:19 That's Peter Attia. But it really is that simple. It's like our bodies, there is a genetic component for sure. So we're not, none of us can be like, um, LU, Kip Kochi, the world record holder in the marathon or Lance Armstrong, people that have crazy high VO2s, but what, what we can do and what we can affect, and that's the important thing, we can affect this number that we get. is we, we can, we can increase that to our potential as a human being. Right. And it, yes, it's limited by our genetics, but it doesn't matter. We can get to a place. where longevity gets significantly higher.

25:00 because two max is right up there with like. Not smoking. And I mean, as far as like your, your risk factor for longevity, all cause mortality VO two max is like an amazing measure. Yeah, it's the number one metric cardiologists use to gauge longevity. Hard stop, there's no close second. It's been that way for seven years. It's interesting that in seven years, think about all the technology that's happened, but one thing that hasn't changed is a VO2 max test. It's the gold standard for assessing how healthy your heart is, and it's done. You could come in and out of a DEXA or wherever you go. I mean, but right now, something cool is happening, happening with VO two.

25:41 It's, it's sort of the democratization of O2. There's people that do remote testing with little machines. We have, we have medical grade equipment here that I think is probably more accurate, but you can go so many places to get a VO2 max test and within a half hour, a half hour and only 10 minutes of strenuous exercise or less, know how healthy your heart is. And if that's not motivation to change behaviors, it's nothing to get sad about. If anything, it's, I'm excited. You get excited about it. It's like, there's my number now. I want it here. And I'm, and I, and you also get numbers on how to get it there. Cause you see your zones that you need to be in to increase your VO two.

26:25 So, yeah. Um, it's a really, really important, health metric for sure. just to put people's mind at ease a little bit as far as what happens here. I will tell you that you you do have a mask on your face. It's not comfy. I'm no, It is not comfy. It's pretty tight. And then there's this like tube coming off and, and, but I hope that your technician is as nice as Ken because he was sitting there encouraging me and I chose to do the walk so you can do a walk or a run. But. Every time I even get to a jog, my shins are like, We will have shin splints, and you will suffer for the next six months if you take one more step.

27:08 So, I chose the walk. And, the incline increases every, on the walk that increases every minute. If you do the job, there's only two protocols. The walk, which you did masterfully, I might add, is 3. 3 miles per hour. So it's just a brisk walk and it never gets faster and it gets steeper every minute. Yeah, so, not faster, but steeper. That's, that's the, the challenge, And the jogging protocol is only five miles per hour. So it's not a run, it's a jog never gets faster. And every two minutes it gets steeper either way, we're going to get you to your VO two. So it doesn't, it doesn't, some people were like, I do the walk.

27:49 Will my number be lower? No. we're going to push you to your breaking point. Um, but I'll tell you this, it's not like people are, gasping for breath after, or VO two. It's a really cool. Because at the end there's like a kindred spirit in the air with, you know, um, with, with me and whatever other technicians are here. It's like, great job. Everybody's happy. It's like, that was fun. I'm glad I did it. And then we get the number and they're like, Either they're relieved like you were, because you have a really healthy cardiovascular system. But even if people get numbers that aren't great, it's very rare we get somebody that leaves with anything other than a happy face, because they have the metrics, they know what they need to do, they have the zones that will increase their VO2.

28:38 It's actually, um, it sounds awful, and I know it does, but it's really kind of a pleasant experience. I hope it was for you. Yeah, no, it was, it was fine. It was fine. I'm not, I'm not sure I'm going to go as far as pleasant, but um, because you are, you, you do this walk or jog and increasing the incline until you can't anymore. Like they, you know, so you are getting to your, breaking point until you're like, no, I really can't take another step. So I want to talk a little bit. Part of the reason that again, I wanted to know my VO two max is because of longevity. And I wanted to see just, you know, see where I was on that. Secondly, though, I find this, concept of the zone two cardio to be quite common.

29:22 Now we hear this a lot, you know, zone two cardio, zone two cardio. And I hear people, Referring to this actually in two completely different ways, the first way I hear people referring to it is actually in your, like, if you have five zones of cardio, that it's the second zone, which is like your moderate, the way Peter Attia refers to it, I think, is the, more in the high zone. So when they're saying, Hey, do more zone two cardio, because that is the key, by the way, to improving your VO two max, which why Dr. Attia. mentions it so often. And so it gets a little bit confusing when you, when you see heart rate charts that are within, that are five zones wide.

30:06 And you're like, is that second zone, the zone two cardio that he's talking about? Yeah, yeah, that's a great question. Because we use the same nomenclature that Peter Attia does. We don't use them to I'll write it down. I'll try to translate it to that for people, because that's what they know in popular culture. But we go with the high zone. So, yeah, it's really important. Essentially, here's what it is. The high zone is a zone two, zone three blend. So I take the front side of a zone two and the, hard side of a zone three and I write it down on everybody's report.

30:47 That's where you need to be 80 percent of your time to increase your VO two, 20 percent of your time. You need to, when you, when you do the VO two as you did Lisa, we were able to tell you where your heart rate hit its peak. So that's a key number, you know, where, where you, cause we pushed you to your limit. I remember. When you got off that thing, it was, you were, you were gassed. Everybody is, I also see, remember you didn't have one drop of sweat on you, which was bizarre, no sweat, but you, we pushed you to your limit and your heart rate got to a certain point. That becomes a key metric because then we can gauge for your HIIT workouts, high intensity interval training.

31:31 So I'm sorry to backtrack one second, 80 percent of your time is in that I'm going to call it a zone two. We call it high and we'll circle those numbers for you. It'll be on for those calculating at home, if you're not going to do your own VO two max, and you're just calculating off of charts, that's about 80 percent of your max heart rate. 75 to 80 percent of 75 to 80. Okay. That's what we're calling zone two cardio. And it's so important because it's, it's the vast amount of time you need. So if you're on your Peloton, you know, you need to gauge your workouts to be right in that range. I can't overemphasize how important that is. You don't want to be outside of it because you're going to degrade.

32:13 the benefits. So you, you want to be right in that zone. And then for 20 percent of the time, which is maybe twice a week, a 15 minute high intensity interval training session, you want your heart rate in the, in the intense periods of a HIIT workout to get over the number that we circle for you. So we, we, we try to make it real. You know, very easy for people to know 80 percent of your time in this heart rate, 20 percent of your time here, but keep in mind for people looking to lose weight, those sessions, you're going to burn 0 percent fat. We were also able to identify your fat burning zone, which is much lower heart rate where you're going to burn a hundred percent fat.

32:57 So it's a question of balance. It's a question of priorities. You know, a lot of people are like, I want to lose my body fat now, and then I'll concentrate on my VO two. So, okay, spend time in your fat burning zone, and it's not a little bit of time in the fat burning zone. You want to be a minimum of four hours a week. Fat burning zone and you will burn fat. This is hard science here. and then once you get that number to where you want it, attack your cardio or people, I want, I want my heart health to be good. Good. Spend your time in zone two and zone three and then go after the fat burning zone. But, yeah, it, it, it's really powerful when you get the numbers and you know how to behave. Right. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

33:37 And, and to just as a side note, we can manage a lot of the fat loss. So let's remember that, that, you know, Don't get me the exercise, yeah, I mean, that's a whole, it's a whole nother topic. And I do talk about it a lot on the podcast, but exercise is a small amount of the piece of how we're going to decrease our fat on the body. So when we're talking about weight loss, obviously we always want to talk about fat loss so that we aren't losing muscle. That's another topic, but just while we're in just regards to exercise, those are your, those are your zones and what happens. And so I personally like to spend most of my time in that zone, too.

34:22 I enjoy my cardio in that way. I do some of the hit and then. I kind of depend on my nutrition for any fat loss that I need, and then, you know, I get my steps in and that sort of thing as well, walk the dog, so there is some low intensity steady state that lists cardio, you may have heard, which really is, puts you in that fat burning zone as well. So, some days, you know, every day is not a workout day for me, and so that's when I do that list. Well, I seem to remember that you were, uh, your body composition, according to DEXA was an A. So whatever you're doing is working, but there's room for improvement. A plus A plus. I didn't get the A Yeah.

35:06 All right. Um, the one test I didn't have, if you're interested in talking about it, and I'll, I'll tell you why I didn't. They also do at the Dexa Fit, they do the resting metabolic rate, which can help you to know, you know, how many calories you burn at rest, which is the Um, and it's a very fascinating number to know if you are counting calories, the reason I did not have it done is because I don't count calories. And so I just thought, I just don't need that information. If you are someone who, you know, maybe isn't in my program yet, you haven't really learned to check in with your body and not a diet app. And you're like, I just want to know that. Tell us a little bit about that test, touch on that a little, just so people know that about that service as well.

35:47 Yeah, absolutely. So, uh, the RMR tests, I think it's valuable for anybody. Um, but it's especially valuable for people that are on a weight loss journey and it becomes critical. And that's why every. Not every, but I'll say the vast majority of nutritionists and dietitians in this whole region, they won't work with the client until they send them here to get a metabolic test, because how could they, they'd be spitballing that you can't really talk to a client, um, with any kind of real, um, integrity without the data. So here's the data. If you're going to give them a calorie count to follow. the calorie count, right? So what happens with the metabolic test?

36:28 First of all, you have to come in fasted. So most people do this one in the morning. Um, not just fasted, but no coffee, no anything, not even a piece of gum in route. In fact, it's just just today, my eight o'clock appointment had come from South Lake Tahoe. And he hadn't read the protocol. So he didn't fast and we couldn't do the test because this is medical grade equipment. We're able to tell you what you're going to do. We're going to put that mask on at least to talk about. We're going to put a pulse oximeter on. You're going to recline in a massage chair for 13 minutes and just breathe through this mask. What we're able to tell you, assuming that you followed the protocol, is down to one calorie.

37:11 They now say it's down to a quarter of one calorie. That's how precise it is. What you need in a day at complete rest. That's a huge number for a few reasons, but I'll start with this. Then we extrapolate based on the measured number. This is just to keep your organs alive. This is a comatose state. This is a baseline number of calories you Me in a day and every human being is so wildly different. The numbers are all over the, you could look at two people who look exactly the same, same height, gender, everything, and their numbers are wildly different. So we measure, so you know, we take the mystery out of it. You know what you need in a day of complete rest. That would, as I said, be extrapolated based on how active you are.

37:54 And we, we, we look at this one page, it's called TDEE, total daily energy expenditure. There's an, on our app, all of your test results go to our app, you look at your app and you're like, oh, I'm, I'm moderately active. So you click the button there, there's like five categories of activity, I'm moderately active. You see the number that you need calorically in a day to keep status quo. and then down below that you'll see if I want to lose one pound of body weight per week, this is where I need to be calorically. If I want to lose two pounds a week, which I think is excessive, but if I want to lose two pounds. a week, here's the calorie number I need to be at.

38:36 Um, I had a client, I don't know, sometime this week earlier that said, Oh, that might work for some people. I don't think that I'm not going to lose them. And I was, I, I said, I'm, I'm sorry, but you are this hard. This is hard science. There's a reason. You paid your money today. You came in for precision. We attached you to medical grade equipment. You will lose a pound of body fat if you follow that, but you have to count the calories. And that's where it gets tricky. Yeah, because even there are studies that show that even nutritional professionals overestimate their calories by some 30%. So it does become tricky because what happens is you're like, you log these, you log these foods and you're like, no, I really am eating, you know, 1900 calories, but.

39:24 We aren't measuring correctly. We aren't finding the right food. It does become kind of tricky. So getting this baseline really, really is helpful, but don't be too hard on yourself. If you can't get that app thing to work No, exactly. but you know, until I started to count my calories. I was not aware that apparently, and I know this because I started doing this a year ago, I never would have known this, but five times a day, I grab a huge handful of nuts that I never calculated in my brain. Well, it turns out those five handfuls are a lot of calories and not one cookie, but the other thing that we're able to, which is almost more important than what I just said in the metabolic test, we're able to tell you If you are a sugar or a fat burn, Hmm.

40:08 and that's key, and it's really a window into your diet because what we eat hardwires our metabolism to burn fuel. So people on keto diets come in and they're off this grid that we look like they're, they're burning a hundred percent fat a hundred percent of the time. So they have created a factory of fat burning and they're sleeping at night. They're just churning through fat. That's why it's such an effective way to lose weight. I don't advocate for, I think it's extreme, but I'm just telling you the numbers. People come in, you know, they're just fat burning machines. People on high carb diets are at the bottom of the chart where I'm looking at it right now, where they're burning 2 percent fat and 98 percent sugar.

40:50 So rest. Is that what you mean? throughout all their life, everything they do, what we eat, it's just like, it hardwires how we burn energy. So they're in effect, they're, they're completely inefficient, ineffective fat burners. So they're sleeping at night, their body's just for fuels and burning the sugars. It's kind of like being in zone two and zone three for cardio. We're burning sugars. That's why it's so important for people on a weight loss journey to a, know your fat burning zone. Know it. Uninvented. Do a VO2. Know your fat burning zone. That's where you're going to burn 100 percent fat. And also, you know, if you, if you, to the extent we limit carbs, we're going to become more efficient fat burners.

41:36 So it's a, it's a really important metric to know. And again, I always have to say that I don't advocate for keto, because sometimes people say, you must really like, I don't, I don't. I'm just telling you people that come in on keto are burning 100 percent fat, You can be, you can really mitigate your carb intake simply by reducing your added sugars. And this is what I encourage my clients. We're not talking about skipping fruit. We're not talking, I mean, I even do still a lot of whole grains, potatoes, all of that. It's the sugar that gets you. It's the added sugar grams. It's the sugar sweetened beverages. It's the sugar in your cereals.

42:16 It's, it's the straight sugar. And I will tell you, I still eat sugar. I'm not a no sugar person. But just being aware of how many grams of sugar are in things is helpful. Just flip that package over, look at the added sugar. It's important. And. Ken doesn't know this a lot about, about my history. I don't count calories because I'm a person who got obsessed with it because I found myself when I was in the counting days, and especially when I counted macros on a slippery slope to orthorexia, I was having anxiety. From the counting, if you are not a person that is prone to that, if you feel like it's easy for me, I can be like, Ken, I can just do it in five minutes and look at it as data counting calories for a month or two can be a very useful tool because a lot of my clients, they come to me.

43:06 After counting for a long time, after fad dieting for a long time, after being obsessive counters and calculators, and they don't need to count anymore. I can look at a plate. I know how much protein is on that because I've counted for so long. So instead of being mad at those years, I spent counting and beating my head against the wall and then increasing my anxiety. I just go, look how much I learned. And now I know what, what protein looks like on the plate and I can prioritize that for myself without counting it. But it certainly, it's, it's a great tool if you're not prone to it as I am. Well said. I mean, counting calories and, you know, scales that we have in our bathrooms, these are triggering things for a lot of people.

43:50 And we have to be so cautious about that. And again, I think that's why coming into a Dexafit, and not just Dexafit, I mean, this isn't about me owning a Dexafit. You could go anywhere. Go to UC Davis. They have a help. Go anywhere. But when you get the numbers, go to Dexafit. It takes the mystery out of it, and you don't need to rely on that scale weight. You don't need to count the calories necessarily. You really don't. Don't, don't go down that rabbit hole where, where you're triggered. That's the worst thing you can do. But it is, it's still empowering to know, to know the numbers and, and to make changes in whatever way is healthy for you. Yeah. And I just felt like I was at a place where I was like, I'm ready for more data.

44:32 And I really had done a lot of work in healing from that. Like I always say that slippery slope of orthorexia, cause I don't think I was like full blown or like really diagnosed with it. It's not even in the DSM really, but I knew I could tell that it was coming on after when I was going through my health coach training. I was like, Oh, okay. Like I could tell I was getting obsessed. And so I've done a lot of work since then. And I was like, it's crazy how like comfortable I am getting on the scale now, how easy your things are. So I was ready for more. So this is kind of like, wait, like for me, like, uh, It was, it was kind of the next step of like, I'm ready for more data. So if you are ready for more data, I would encourage you to look up a Dexa fit.

45:14 If you're in my area, obviously you're going to go to Ken's in Sacramento. So he was, I was asking, you know, are most people in the U S going to be able to find him? And how did you phrase it in, in, the, in the, end, the NFL cities, the bigger cities, yeah, there's decades. And now we're, uh, we've just moved to, uh, Got about 300 locations in Asia. We're moving into South America. Yeah. I mean, it's just, I really think it's a healthy time right now. We, I think Attia is part of it. Peter Attia, the great doctor. I think that, you know, there's a lot of, uh, there's a focus on health right now. If our clients are any evidence as to what's going on in the, in the, in the world right now, it's really healthy because people come in and I can't tell you how I'm so happy when I see we have 450 pound clients that have to struggle up the stairs to get here and I help them up the bravery that they they're coming in because they care about their health and they're on a journey and there's no judgment there.

46:22 Are you kidding me? Zero judgment. It's a, it's a safe place where we laugh and we test and we get the numbers. We chart a course wherever you do it, whether it's Dexafit or any place you can find it. It's a, it's a start of a really healthy, journey, not just because we call the mental, And, and two, it's the idea of taking charge of your own health. Don't wait for your doctor to be like, Hey, let's test your bone density. Like just decide, you know what, there's options out here outside of the medical system. It's just not that expensive. It's 110 for the Dexa. And what was the VO2?

47:03 I don't even remember. uh, the, it, uh, depth is one 10. The metabolic is one 10 and the VO2 is one 20. Yeah, it's, honestly, I, I think it was well, well worth it. So, like I said, if you're local to me, tell Ken I say hi when you go into the Sacramento location. And, um, otherwise, they can just Google Dexafit. Is that the best way? Dexafit. Yep. Absolutely. Yep. Dexafit. com. Download the app. Even if you download the app and you don't have results there, just see what it's like, your results will be up there. It's going to give you a biological age based on I just want to say, that's my, that was actually my best, my, my most exciting thing.

47:44 My biological age was 39, and I'm 48. So I was really excited to see that it was, you know, nine years younger. So I, yeah, I can't thank you enough for having me. This was Yeah. It's been a pleasure. I love this conversation. Thank you so much for your time. Thanks for having me. If this episode has helped you in any way, all I ask is for you to share it, share it with one friend or share it on your social media tag me, and I'll give you a shout out. I'd also love for you to leave a five-star rating on apple and Spotify and review the show on apple podcasts. Have a great week and as always, thanks for listening to the eat. Well think. Well live well podcast.